Vampires of the Paper Flower Consortium

PFC Episode 23: The Problem with Children

April 24, 2023 Season 2 Episode 23
PFC Episode 23: The Problem with Children
Vampires of the Paper Flower Consortium
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Vampires of the Paper Flower Consortium
PFC Episode 23: The Problem with Children
Apr 24, 2023 Season 2 Episode 23

Lady Loretta describes why the rules of no children in residence apply to vampires of the coven by telling the story of Andrew Farrow, the Senior, and his son, Andrew Junior, of the tragedy that unfolded in their Mississippi home back in the 1980s.

For more information or to ask Lady Loretta a question: please visit or email her at May's topic is Forgetting how to Vampire (or People)

Written and Performed by Elizabeth Guizzetti


Opening and Closing music: Loretta's Theme by Evan Witt. Learn More at
Soft Horror Piano Drone  from Story Blocks.

Support the show on the Patreon

Kickstarter for Honor And Chivalry Among Vampires is going on between April 4th and May 1st: If you want an illustrated hardback copy, then go to

Support the Show.

Thank you for listening.
Social Media:

Show Notes Transcript Chapter Markers

Lady Loretta describes why the rules of no children in residence apply to vampires of the coven by telling the story of Andrew Farrow, the Senior, and his son, Andrew Junior, of the tragedy that unfolded in their Mississippi home back in the 1980s.

For more information or to ask Lady Loretta a question: please visit or email her at May's topic is Forgetting how to Vampire (or People)

Written and Performed by Elizabeth Guizzetti


Opening and Closing music: Loretta's Theme by Evan Witt. Learn More at
Soft Horror Piano Drone  from Story Blocks.

Support the show on the Patreon

Kickstarter for Honor And Chivalry Among Vampires is going on between April 4th and May 1st: If you want an illustrated hardback copy, then go to

Support the Show.

Thank you for listening.
Social Media:

Paper Flower Consortium Episode 23, The Problem of Children

Recorded by Loretta Fabron Onfoy, Former lady of the Kingdom of France, current historian and librarian on the Paper Flower Consortium

Beloved Initiates: 

As of late, I’ve received a few questions about the benefits to a coven versus being a rogue vampire. Obviously, I love coven life, but I understand condo living isn’t for everyone. And to ensure you realize your preferred future, we shall discuss these differences over the next lessons.


The first benefit, or liability, depending on how you look upon it, is children. 

I do not mean offspring; I mean actual children. Small humans under the age of eighteen or twenty-one, depending on how your culture counts it. It can be a sorrow for some people not to have children, even after they are vampires. Raising children can be rewarding, but it is also difficult. 


While the Paper Flower Consortium will allow elderly relatives to live on the premises, we do not allow children to live here. Neither do most other American covens. 


Now obviously, if you are a young vampire and your human family is still living, and you wish to invite your humans for dinner or a movie night, no one will complain about such things. And if you have a young relative who needs a parent, you may assist them in any financial means via boarding school or even move out of your condominium for a short time and exist with them somewhere not filled with vampires. 


There are many reasons for not allowing children. 


First of all, a modern vampire coven is no place for children, and we will not pretend that it is. Many vampires behave salaciously with their enthralled humans in the public areas of the coven. 


Children need peer contact, and a vampire coven cannot provide it.


Another reason is social media. Vampires are private and slow to change. The world of the young is too changing.


The final reason is children raised by vampires almost always become vampires. We know of none who have not. They don’t know any other way to exist. This is a cruelty and we do not believe in cruelty. 


I have spoken of before how Gothic and Paranormal romances have taken the fear away from vampires and this is exactly what I speak of and this happened forty years ago, back in the 1980s.  

The story that comes to us is from Andrew Farrow, Junior of his childhood in Mississippi.


Andrew Farrow, Senior was from the American south. We do not know if he was actually born in America or if he was an ancient. What we do know is Andrew was changed young, perhaps at twenty or twenty-one. And like Norma or even Pascaline and me, the younger we look, the more it becomes obvious that one is not aging as others age around us. 

We also know that by the 1980s, Andrew found his occupation as a chef and worked in an all-hours diner. He made a killer burger. One night, he found a bloody mess in the bathroom and an infant left on the floor, wrapped in a towel. 

The baby was a boy. 

Andrew named the child Andrew after him and called the boy Andy and brought him into his home. From now until I finish my story, I will call the senior Andrew Andrew, and use the diminutive for his son. Andrew and Andy’s first years together were happy. Andrew did his best for his son and like all small children Andy idolized his father.  


Some may judge him for the lack of what you might consider proper infant care, but like many single dads who work outside the home, he did his best to juggle his child’s needs and his job.

Andrew paid a neighbor girl to watch Andy. She cared for the baby well, with Andrew’s permission she often bringing him over to her house. Both to help Andrew sleep undisturbed throughout the day and because her mother’s house was clean and bright, unlike the cluttered, dimly lit home of a vampire.

The girl took Andy to the beach or the movies on Saturdays. Andrew paid a boy to mow his lawn and rake the leaves. As a cook, he was paid in cash. And so it was he paid with cash for the babysitter and the young landscaper. The girl graduated and another girl took her place.


No one thought Andrew was a bad father, just a single dad who worked nights and was falling behind on chores. Their home was cluttered and ill-kept, but not dirty. They were considered quiet, but respectful neighbors.

 And certainly no one thought he was a vampire. Andrew was careful never to hunt in his neighborhood. There was no need, his hours made hunting after work easier and Andrew kept a fridge filled with food always. In his garage, there was a locked freezer. 

In this freezer he kept what he called game and mutton. 


Most children did not play persay with their fathers, but Andrew did play the guitar and sang songs with Andy, and he read him picture books. Andrew never spoke of Andy’s mother and he would evade any questions about her


However, then Andy went to school. The elder Andrew did not have time for PTA meetings or teacher meetings, but it was a different world. Teachers called, Andrew said he needed to work at night and sleep through the day. 

It was somewhat strange however there were no pictures of the elder Andrew either, but nothing little Andy said drew any suspicion of his dad. 


When Andy started school full time, he saw less of his dad, but this was the time of latchkey kids. No one thought much about the fact the boy spent a few hours alone after school. Mostly because he was not alone. Kids played outside with their friends, often with no contact with a parent. In this regard, Andy was no different. He rode his bike in the sun and when it rained, he and his friends played in the mud.  


Andrew always woke around 6 pm and make dinner. He would spend an hour talking to his son and then the babysitter would come over and Andrew would go to work at the diner. Andy was in bed by 9 pm, though sometimes he cajoled his sitter to letting him stay up to 9:30 or even 10. 


Andy did not consider his father as abnormal. Most fathers did not work all night, still some did. Most of his friends had moms, but Andy did not.  Of course, he also didn’t know any grandparents. His babytsitters were always kind to him. And this was their normal.


Andy was about nine when he had a school project about a favorite family recipe. There was always meat in the house. Meat that Andrew ate, but Andy did not. So he asked about it for his report 

“It is mutton,” Andrew said. “I tried to give it to you when you were small, but you didn’t like it. So I feed you beef like a king and keep the mutton for myself. That’s what dads do. If your tastes change, maybe I’ll let you try it one day.”

“What does it taste like?”

“It’s a little more gamey than beef, more fatty than venison,” Andrew said. “Can be slimey if not prepared just so.”

As it didn’t sound appetizing, Andy didn’t consider eating it. As I said, his dad made a killer hamburger and that’s what Andy wanted for dinner. And his father’s hamburger recipe is actually what Andy wrote about.  


The idea that a father might play with their children outside, take them to baseball games and the like never occurred to Andy until the first father-son outing at school.  


Andy tried to pester his father into coming, but Andrew insisted he could not go. It was out of doors and it was in the day. 

Moreover, it cost more money than Andrew was comfortable spending on a cook’s salary. 


Like all kids, Andy whined. 


Like many younger parents, Andrew did not have much patience for such thing. I am sorry to say that the conversation did not end well for Andy. Andrew loomed over Andy and menacingly took off his belt. 

In today’s viewpoint, Andrew abused his son, but for the time period, he did not. Andy did not feel abused, he was angry about the world’s unfairness. And in his anger about the punishment, Andy also noticed something peculiar: Andrew’s pallid flesh never saw the sun and other fathers were growing old, but Andrew remained the same. He never even needed a haircut. 


By fifth grade, Andy stopped asking his father for anything like a father-son outing. He had been hurt emotionally too many times. The boy began to seethe. All children know how to cut their parents, Andy knew it too and when he was angry, he cut Andrew.

“How old were you when you had me?”

“Twenty,” Andrew said.

“And where is my mother?” Andy asked.

“I don’t know.” Andrew said.

Andy narrowed his eyes: “Are you my father?” he asked.

“I raised you, didn’t I?” Andrew snapped. 

“Are you my father?” Andy asked again. Then he shouted the question.

By the look in Andrew’s eyes, Andy knew this conversation would end in two ways. Either he would get the belt, which would temporarily shut him up or Andrew would tell him the truth. 

Andy whipped up some tears. It wasn’t hard, there was a knot in his chest and whenever it loosened, he cried. This time, he loosened it on purpose. And it worked.

Andrew sat beside him and put an arm about his shoulders.

“Andy, you are getting older so I will explain everything to you. You can ask me any question.”

“Why do you never go to the father-son baseball game?”

And good to his word, Andrew told Andy the truth. 

“I am a vampire, I cannot go to the afternoon baseball game, but I can take you to a night game. How would that be?”

Andy was less surprised than he thought he should be. He was too angry to care about the vampirism, because that answered the question which broke the angry knot in his chest. 

“So in fact, you are not my father?”

“No.” Andrew said.

“Did you kill my mother?”

“I never even met her. I found you.” Andrew explained how he found Andy. 

Andy’s eyes wavered with more tears, as another pang of being abandoned struck his chest.

And Andrew said, “I’m doing my best here.”

Those words broke Andy’s heart. He agreed to go to an evening baseball game. And Andrew did love Andy. He held him close until Andy calmed. They were okay. 


And so, the relationship continued as it had before. 


At first, Andy told no one that his father was a vampire, because Andy didn’t want to sound stupid. None of the kids believed in vampires. But men who find babies seemed real. 

Still, it made a good story. 

Then one night, when Andy was thirteen, he went to what was commonly known as a slumber party.  

The boys sat around, trying to scare each other with the scariest tale. Andy began telling the story of how a vampire with a perchance for blood, killed his mother, and ate her, and kept her son for himself. 

And he ended the story with: “And I am that boy destined to become a killer myself.” 

The other boys laughed. Of course they did, no one believed in vampires. 

Still, the scary story enticed the boys. It became a school yard game and the story grew more fanciful. Andy was, in fact, lying about most of it. He knew nothing of his father’s past. Only that he was from the South. He was a young man when he found Andy. 

However there was one truth: Andrew hadn’t aged a day. He was still a man of twenty.  That was the real reason Andrew would never take Andy anywhere in the day. 

One day, one of Andy’s friends called him a liar.

With the other boys around, Andy felt the pressure of proof building. And when Andy’s friend pressed Andy to see the vampire, Andy tried to wave off the game, by saying, “Don’t be stupid.”

But a second friend chimed in about “seeing the vampire.”

Andy knew he would be in big trouble if they awoke Andrew, but Andy still believed he could handle anything that happened.    

Giggling at their mischief, the boys crept into the darkened house.

“Shut up!” Andy whispered. 

His friends slowly crept to the door of Andrew’s room. Andy winced at the whine of the hinges as they opened the door. The boys peered into Andrew’s dim room. 

Andrew lay sleeping on his bed, like any other man who worked at night. 

However, just as Andy claimed, Andrew looked too young to have a son, Andy’s age. In fact, at this point, they looked more like brothers than father and son.

“Alright, you’ve seen the vampire, let’s go.” 

Andy was able to pull one friend away from the door, but the other, the boldest of the three, crept inside Andrew’s room. 

“There’s one way to know,” his friend whispered. 

Andy’s heart sank. He reached for his friend, but the other boy boldly 

walked to the window. He pushed back a curtain. A beam of light flooded across Andrew’s bare arm. And in the dim, Andy saw the smoke rise from his father’s flesh.  

Andrew awoke, screaming. 

He grabbed the nearest weapon, a lamp from a side table and threw it at his attacker.

It smashed against his head and the boy who was still holding the curtain, fell to the ground opening the curtain further. Another beam of sunlight hit him, and Andrew screamed again. With vampiric speed, he leapt upon the boy at the window. Another beam of light slashed Andrew across the face. He screamed in agony. He opened his mouth wide and clamped his fangs down hard, pulling out the blood, healing his wounds.  

We cannot know for sure, but it is likely he did not realize he had exsanguinated the boy to death. Only that the healthy, youthful blood healed his wounds.

Feeling surrounded by danger, Andrew grabbed the next boy, he did not kill that one, only drank until the boy collapsed.

Dad!” Andy screamed. “Stop.”

He grabbed Andy next.

Only then he bit into his son’s arm, did Andrew realize that all three were boys, and his fangs were in his own son. 

He shoved Andy away from him and into a wall. His eyes were not filled with anger, only a deep pain of betrayal. “You told our secret.”

Andrew began to pack a few items clothing.

“Dad, what are you doing?” Andy asked.

. Andrew covered himself in layers of clothing and a big floopy hat. He collected his stashes of cash. He counted out a hundred dollars and left it upon the table. 

“What’s going to happen? Dad, look at me!”

Andrew didn’t answer. 

“Where are we going?” Andy cried. 

After a few choice explicates, which boiled down to “Guess you’ll need to get yourself a job, kid.” 

Andrew walked into the garage, tossed a few of the bags of bloody meat into a large cooler. Then he got in his car,  and drove away. 

We have no idea what happened to Andrew. Thankfully, he was never famous or infamous enough to be in the news. At least, he wasn’t after this scandal died down.  

Not only was there a dead child and a wounded one on the floor, but when police opened the chest freezer, they realized it wasn’t all mutton. 

They questioned Andy, but he just told them what his father told him. No, he never ate it. His father did. It was soon discovered that the freezer was filled with pieces of several game species—including human.

Though there was a manhunt for Andrew, he was never found. 


Andy went into foster care system. He thought his father was strict, but his foster father was even a harder man. He felt very alone and though as a teenager he never would admit such a need: he missed the casual, but loving neglect of his father. 


 At eighteen, he was kicked out of foster care with only the clothes on his back. He was glad to go. 


Andy crisscrossed the country on foot. He worked several odd jobs, as farmhands, linecooks, and the like. He struggled in personal relationships as he felt like he did not quite fit anywhere. 


At thirty, he eventually came to exist here in the Paper Flower Consortium and returned to university. He joined us in undeath at age thirty-three and has existed as a vampire for a decade.


There is the part of Andy who is still the boy whose father walked out on him. That part of him wants to know where his father went, but a grown man Andy knows it is better not to know. We are his family. 


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Initiate Troy: 
Lady Loretta, So why can’t we have kids?

 Lady Loretta: 

Initiate Troy, 

Do you not listen?

Because it is their nature to grow away from us and it is nearly impossible for them to do so in a vampire environment. Humans are not nocturnal creatures. The story I told happened in the early 1980s. Now a days, everyone puts everything on the internet. There is no way to keep a secret. 


But even in the past, children could not be expected to keep a secret forever. The second born of Gaius, Leon Bach Soren, was also a founding and he almost told….

As I have said before, Gaius is a great horseman and horse trainer – and it was this skill which helped him acquire lands in the country we now call Germany. 

However, he and his first-born Gunter were aligned with the Margrave of Brandenburg they were part of the Revolt of Princes in 1552. And so it was Gaius and Gunter were riding home after a long drawn-out battle when they heard the sound of a child weeping at the edge of the forest. 

After all, they could they hear his heartbeat and stomach growl and smelled the horrid tang of urine on his clothes. 

Gaius dismounted and went around the tree. The boy had crawled into the hollow space within roots of a large oak. His plump cheeks were covered in snot and tears. Grit and worse were stuck in his teeth, because he had been eating worms, but Gaius did not see ringworm or lice. In fact, though he was covered in surface dirt, the child seemed fairly clean.  

Gaius always carried a bit of human food for emergencies for his men. He gave a bit of bread with lard to Leon who gobbled up the bread

What was said during this exchange was lost to time, Gaius did remember that Leon only knew his given name and in his childish way tried to explain how there several loud booms and the ground had been shook. By his speaking ability, but lack of general knowledge Gaius decided the boy must be close to three years old.

As I have said in the past, Gaius can be mercurial. For some reason, his protective streak emerged with this boy. 

And Gaius asked Gunter, “What do you think would happen if I raised a man like one would raise a horse?”

Gunter replied, “So we aren’t going to eat him?”

“Suck on some lard. This might be our son,” Gauis said.

“But you are not my papa,” Leon had cried. 

Gaius looked over the boy. “You are quite right, do you have any brothers?”

“No,” Leon said. 

“Do you want two brothers? We’ll teach you to ride horses and shoot arrows and fight with a sword. Won’t that be fun?”

“What about Mama?”

“When we find her, she’ll be our Mama too.” 

This must have seemed logical enough for Leon, because he went with them. Now Gaius knew the basic ideas of raising boys both from his own upbring in the Roman Empire and the harsher era in which they found themselves, he also knew animals were often treated better than children, because animals were considered innocent and an investment; Gaius had always considered Leon an investment.

As an aside, it is a misconception that people did not love their children in the middle ages, but Gaius and Gunter have a pretty good idea what happened to Leon’s mother. She and other young mothers saw the army coming, and got their children to the relative safety of the wood and returned to protect what they could. She was either one of the dead or captured. This part of Europe had seen many wars and more were yet to come.

Now Gunter was away with the Brandenburg army for much of Leon’s childhood, but Gaius was good to his word. From all accounts, Leon was a loving, happy child. Leon cried for his mother, but Gaius just sat with him and rocked him. Leon was given several toys and games and warm woolen tunics and hose, leather shoes, and caps most which would be gently packed away after he outgrew them. 

He learned to ride both with a saddle and bareback on Nix. Nix loved Leon, but Leon was trained on a modern saddle, so once the boy was riding his own horses, he did not ride Nix.

He learned to use a sword, dagger, and because an excellent archer. He learned to speak, read and write in both in Old Prussian and Latin.

The only hole in Leon’s education was religious. Gaius believes in the old Gods, but intelligent enough to hide his religion. 

Gunter began life as a Catholic, but the men knew better than to be on the opposite side as his prince. Growing up during the wars of religion, Leon ultimately felt such beliefs were foolish. Gaius and Gunter never argued over religion. That people killed, tortured, and died over them, disgusted him as it did his guardians. 

We also know that around age thirteen, Leon went through puberty. He screamed at them, said words in terrible cruelty. He wanted to know his parents – what happened to them. But no one ever knew who they were. However, the longest and largest argument was he wanted to go to war with other boys his age. He felt left behind. 

For all his faults and ancient thinking, Gaius believed that a child should not be on the battlefield. Now the world agrees with him, but back then many boys went to war at twelve or thirteen. Including Gaius and Gunter! 

Leon continued to grow and these arguments worsened. 

By fourteen, Leon had grown taller than Gaius. He tried to loom over his guardian to intimidate him. As you can imagine, intimidation did not work with the ancient vampire. And just like Andy, he had realized that his guardians were not aging. In his fury, he threatened to turn them in as witches or heretics. Leon was locked in his room several times over these years with only bread, cheese, and watered wine. 

Those teen years were full of rage, but they did get better. 

And at twenty-one, Leon rode beside Gaius into battle. He fought valiantly and well for the next five years, but truly shined once the battle was done. 

Gaius felt that a lad trained as a horse was a success. And around age twenty-five, the men began to make preparations for Leon to become a vampire. You see Leon never had a choice, not really, because to Gaius, Leon was an investment. He wanted to raise a man of bravery, valor and honor.  And he succeeded.. 


Before I go on, I want to point out that Leon was not the only child Gaius and Gunter raised. There was also Sydella. 

Sydella was also taken in after a battle. Only she was eleven years old. 

Gaius thought Sydella too old, because the finest years with Leon were when he was small and loving. Plus she was a girl and he wasn’t sure about that. 

Still, Gunter was feeling nostalgic, and Nix fell in love immediately. 

What Gaius found was she was an easy child. As a child she was cautious, her undead brothers were a little strange, drank the blood of their enemies, but they kept her safe in the castle and there was a war raging outside.  Leon passed her all his old things and encouraged her to play for at least a few years more. He and Gunter still kept human mistresses, so she had companionship, but mostly she was beside Gaius, helping in the stables.  

Gaius did not expect her to be a warrior, so she was trained in womanly behavior. With fine nutritious food and surrounded by gentleness, Sydella grew into a beautiful woman. She wanted to marry and Gaius made a sizable dowry for her. Unfortunately, her dreams were dashed by the world and she felt vampirism was her best option.

As I said, all children of vampires become vampires.


A question from Initiate Tiffany: 

Lady Loretta, it seems like this is a hypocritical rule since you were adopted when you were sixteen. 


Initiate Tiffany, 

I realize many will say this is unfair and hypocritical since I came to Agata and Jakub at sixteen and Derrik at seventeen, but it was a different world then. There was no such thing as child welfare or child protective services and Agata and Jakub adopted me and Pascaline—please remember though Pascaline was a grown women, ladies were not allowed to live alone. And as for Derrik, he was a hired man, something else which is no longer appropriate for this age.


Every age has their own rules.  And this is one of ours for this time period. 


A Follow up question from Initiate Tiffany: 
Lady Loretta, 

But what about Norma? You took her in.


Initiate Tiffany,

Norma was not a human child, she was already a vampire …

Wait…What was that?

Ryan has informed me your thoughts, Initiate Tiffany. You ought to run home to your children for they and you are not welcome here. That you would become a vampire and transform them, so they never die is a cruelty beyond words. Please leave.

Yes, I am speaking to you. You are no longer an initiate. 

Run. Run far, because when I catch you, I will eat you. Modern Americans certainly look tender, and it’s been an awfully long time since I hunted a human. 

It is my sadness to report Initiate Tiffany has failed the initiation program. If she returns to our property, she will be eaten. A thank you to Ryan for his mind reading ability.


Please be sure that you wish to exist as vampires, my beloved initiates: 

Have a good day, beloveds and sleep the sleep of the dead.


Closing Credits.


VO: If you have questions or comments for Lady Loretta, please contact her at or through the Paper Flower Consortium Patreon. And check out upcoming topics there or at the website.

 If you love this podcast, like and share this episode. Please consider donating either onetime or through the Patreon.

 The Paper Flower Consortium Podcast was written and performed by Elizabeth Guizzetti. You can learn more about her books, including the books featuring vampires in the same universe, by going to

 The amazing intro and outro music was written by Evan Witt and you can learn more about his music at


One more thing: There is a kickstarter going on right now for an illustrated hardback of Honor and Chivalry Among Vampires, a historical drama written and illustrated by Elizabeth Guizzetti. Do you want to know how It is the story of how Lady Agata and Sir Jakub became vampires and traveled to France? This it that book. The link is in the show notes!  

The problem with Children
The Andrews - a cautionary tale
Andy got bigger and noticed things...
A word from Kelly Tailoring
In Closing